February 1, 2021

Are Holographic Displays Possible? – with Aleksandra Pedraszewska

Show Notes

The World isn’t Flat, Why is your Display?

In our latest, we host Aleksandra Pedraszewska, COO and co-founder of VividQ a deep tech company that enables 3D holograms to be displayed on demand! The patented technology aims to power the next-gen augmented reality (AR) devices, head-up displays (HUD) and consumer electronics.

Founded by a team of engineers, mathematicians and computer scientists from the Universities of Cambridge, Oxford and St Andrews, Aleks and her team ask the very relevant question as we head into the next decade of digital immersion.. “The World isn’t Flat, Why is your Display?”

Tune in to hear how VividQ is bringing holography from the Isaac Asimov Sci-Fi realm to the masses through everyday applications.


Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:00:02] You have to really start thinking about, OK, how do we represent digital data today, looking at the screens and when you think about your laptop, when you think about your phone, basically what you're looking at is the flat panel with a number of peripheral pixels that show you an image. But what we probably forget is that this is entirely not how we are used to learning about the world. 

Shikher Bhandary [00:00:30] That was Alexandra Petrouchka, CEO and co-founder of Vivid Q, a deep tech company that enables 3D holograms to be displayed on demand. The patented technology aims to buy the next gen augmented reality devices, heads up display and other consumer electronics. 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:00:50] When you look around the room, you get many different cues from whichever points you look at which you learn about by the reflection of light. And effectively, your human visual system interprets the world in a certain way thanks to those cues. But you don't really get those cues from a flat panel display. The hologram is an actual representation of the object, how the light behaves. So you will then be able to see the difference between a perfect hologram and and whatever physical object wants to have in the in the room. But this is very much what we do, genuine real holography so that you can build a screen which shows you a three dimensional object with the same properties, with the same cues that the physical object gives you. 

Shikher Bhandary [00:01:40] Founded by a team of engineers, mathematicians and computer scientists from the University of Cambridge, Oxford and St Andrews, Alexander team asked the very relevant question. As we head into the next decade of digital emotion, the world isn't really flat. So why is your display tuned in? To hear how vivid Q is bringing holography from the Isaac Asimov sci fi realm to the masses 

Shikher Bhandary [00:02:07] through everyday applications? 

Jed Tabernero [00:02:19] Welcome to THC, where we unpack the ever changing technology economy 

Adrian Grobelny [00:02:25] hangout with Jed Shikher and Adrian as we tackle the industries of tomorrow. 

Shikher Bhandary [00:02:30] This is things have changed. 

Jed Tabernero [00:02:49] If I were to think about it, I would look at all these technologies and be like a lot of infrastructure that needs to be built in order for us to do something cool in the air space and to come to especially consumer technology. What got you into the space of holography and in general? 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:03:02] Yeah, every time I'm asked this question, I kind of want to say, you know, I went for a hike and then I saw the sunset and I thought how? I don't really feel it. But I'm certain that if I was not at the place where I was at that point, the Cambridge ecosystem, I would never end up doing what I'm doing today. And this was entirely because I I met the right people that I didn't even have to be doing business or tech related things. It was just that the matter of having a conversation over a glass of wine and thinking, you know, this is something that I heard someone did for their PhD and this sounds interesting. And you have the right skills to maybe help develop it. And this is very much a conversation that is not in any way specific to myself and my co-founders. These conversations happened in Cambridge and obviously in Silicon Valley in Oxford, where you have a lot of people who are dealing with tech. You eventually end up with with those those crazy groups that decide, OK, I actually want to take it to the market. And this was very much the story of it. Q So I actually had known our current CTO and Jay, who is also Polish for for quite a while before we even started thinking about doing anything together business wise. And I actually didn't know what was the the theme or area that Andrew was working on until until we started talking about holography and vivid Q and what they were working on at that point. So I had known Angie for I think over two years when we had this conversation, and he literally told me I'm about to graduate from my PhD and I think that's myself and my group. I think you really have something cool. And he told me about this this little three dimensional space station that they managed to generate in the lab using university broadband's, using the dirtiest algorithm that they could write in Python. But the very new assumptions about math and physics so effectively allowing them to generate this holographic space station in real time on the university broadband's. And when I say it's today, I guess the we hadn't realized at that point how how big of a milestone it was for for physics in general. So if I tell you today that what they did was basically sixteen hundred times improvement over anything else in holography that was known at that point, this is more and less the scale of of the of the improvements that they made for holography as an industry or holographic display as an application. So at the point when we had this conversation, this is more in this. Well, what was there? There was a lab in Cambridge that was running the algorithm and showing a little green, three dimensional space station. And this happens that because I knew Andrei and I was at that time already doing my masters. So in Cambridge, trying to kind of focus my career a little bit more on tech and doing my master's in technology policy and management, which was kind of a step change from social sciences that I was doing in my undergrad. So to something a little bit more focused on tech and innovation. And when I think about it today with the guys actually did was probably the most stereotypical thing in the world. They were planning to run this thing at the conference. So what could they do? Let's go to the girl from the business school to ask how to do it. 

Shikher Bhandary [00:06:55] That's great. 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:06:58] That's what they did. But and OK, the presentations went well. And we've been working together since then. So actually, in the very beginning, that technical team and my technical co-founder is that we're working on that on the MVP and the first demo of the product, they were actually parts of another private initiative that was going on at the physics department at that time. So the story is that's part of the funding for the previous project got moved onto what became Levitsky. And effectively, my involvement has also been evolving from just supporting the very early stage of of what do we want to call it product? How do we want to build it to bring it to the market? Because I was still doing my masters at the point. So actually, for the first half, half a year, for the first six months, when when the when the demo was already there in the lab, it was actually trying to figure out, OK, how are we going to build the structure? How are we going to actually build a company out of this? So it's been the process. And I think that this is something that is very often underappreciated or because people really oversimplified how they start that something very often people give up just because there are some difficulties at the very beginning and they think, you know, it didn't sound like that when I was reading about how how Spotify started. It didn't sound like that when I was reading about how Microsoft started. But actually, when you really dig into this, there is always way more to this than just six people meeting in one room and assigned different roles to what they're going to there in the company. And then suddenly, you know, stumbling upon the angel investor who gave them this two million dollars to actually build this. 

Adrian Grobelny [00:08:54] That gives us a really good background of how kind of the origin story of how Vivek, you started. I wanted to start to kind of unfold behind the tech, the technology behind it. How what is the product? What is the problem that your team and yourself are trying to solve? And why did you think that this was the product or the tech that your team was fit and the best team to take on? 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:09:21] Sure. And I think, yeah, the technology is very much at the heart of everything we do. And, you know, we haven't created an extremely creative business model. We haven't created an extremely amazing marketing that is just selling something that anyone else. Kenzer tech is very much something that is a main differentiator for what it does. So I love to talk about this and I think to really appreciate this, you have to really start thinking about, OK, how do we represent digital data today? How do we actually consume information at looking at the screens that we currently have in our consumer electronics? And when you think about your laptop, when you think about your phone, basically what you're looking at is the flat panel with a number of colorful pixels that show you an image. And and this is cool. 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:10:20] This is this is usually OK. But what we probably forget is that this is entirely not how we are used to learning about the world. When you when you look around the room, you get many different cues from whichever point you look at which you learn about by the reflection of light, by the structure of your eye. And effectively your human visual system interprets the world in a certain way thanks to those cues. But you don't really get those cues from a flat panel display. So to get it into into a little bit more context, when you look at any object in the physical world, you're actually looking at the pattern of light. So this pattern of light created by a light reflecting from different sources in the room and hitting your eye is creating this wavefront that, again, your visual system interprets as a physical object. So when you then take a step back and think, OK, if I wanted to create a perfect digital display that would be representing a real world perfectly, what would I like to do? And the answer is very simple. You would like to calculate this wavefront that's your eye interprets as a three dimensional physical object. You'd like to put it on a digital display and then reflect some type of light to then see that object exactly as if you were observing a physical one. And this is exactly what the hologram is. And I usually have to introduce the word hologram quite late in my explanation because the word hologram has been very much abused in very many. Friends contexts in relation to any type of display, any type of augmented reality application, you know, I saw people I saw people calling those little fans that are rotating very quickly. And if you then project something onto that fan, it gives you it gives you a perception of something being, you know, three dimensional. I saw people call that's a hologram. So usually when I then have to take a step back and say, no, the hologram is an actual representation of the object, how the light behaves. So you wouldn't be able to eventually see the difference between a perfect hologram and and whatever physical object you want to you want to have in the in the room. This is usually quite difficult to to perceive, but this is very much what we do. We do the genuine real holography so that you can build a screen which shows you a three dimensional object with the same properties, with the same cues that the physical object gives you effectively a holy grail of display. 

Shikher Bhandary [00:13:20] So you just said real holography, right? It might this might be a stupid question, but it is the other holograms that they create in concerts and stuff. Is that considered real holography? 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:13:35] A short answer is no. OK,. 

Shikher Bhandary [00:13:37] I knew it. I knew Coachellacouldn't be that impressive, you know. 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:13:43] No, this is a very valid question. And I mean, a lot of the work that we that we've done over the past three years since we started Levitsky was actually kind of spreading this this message. What is holography, what these holographic display, how is it different from what people currently call holograms? And why should you really care? Because the fact is, like, no one really gives it them that, you know, I call something a hologram and you call something else hologram. Why should you care? And the very easy answer is because this is the only way to do many applications that we want three dimensional, genuine three dimensional screens to do so. Coming back to the Michael Jackson hologram or Whitney Houston hologram or to pack up that the fact that it's based on is actually extremely simple and nonsense, like, I think 19th century using in theaters called Pepper's Ghost. So this is effectively projecting, projecting a two dimensional image on the Mirror that then if it's reflected onto onto them the flat space on the at the stage, you effectively see the person, that cutout of the person on the on the stage. And and this is cool for applications when you are standing, you know, five plus meters from that projection, because effectively our perception of depth is actually less and less important the further away the object is. So if you're projecting a two dimensional Michael Jackson on the stage, you probably don't care that much. If it's three dimensional, if it has all the same cues that the physical object would have, it's probably good for the application like that similar thing. We actually gave an interview, I think, a week and a half ago about Kim Kardashian father who was represented. The peppers go in exactly the same context and obviously called the hologram, because this is this is something that's from science fiction movies. We just associate with a projection. It usually just brings a word hologram to to us. And I think it's cool because this is it's nice that this is something that is really deeply embedded, I think, in people's minds. And this is something that we are kind of aspiring to. People are aspiring to a real holographic display if we are not there yet. And we were just using some illusions to do that, that's OK. We are eventually going to get there. 

Shikher Bhandary [00:16:35] It's not exactly augmented reality, but it's a proxy that invokes that curiosity. That's I'd really be interested in what real augmented reality is. And similarly, like the holograms, I think that's why they do it at night. Right. Because, you know, you're standing away. There's no light issues and you can really concentrate on it from far too. The image might look, might not be as important. So that's interesting. 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:17:02] Yeah, that's actually a very good point that you're bringing about. About brightness, because all those illusions, and it's not only about peppers, ghosts and those projections that people do on the stage, it's also about what people call augmented reality headsets or smart glasses. And so when you kind of realize that majority of currently available hardware and wearables that people call augmented reality are based on a similar principle. They also suffer from very similar issues. So if you ever tried to use magic wand or a Microsoft Tolan's in bright lights, you can barely see anything because they're using the reflected lights, which is very inefficient. From the optical perspective, you would have to burn your face to basically achieve the brightness that your eye is expecting. But more importantly, of course, these devices also don't project images with any depth perception. So they're using effectively what's 3-D cinema is using. So, again, a decades old technology called stereoscopic display. And for people who don't know anything about this play technology, stereoscopic display effectively works on this principle that you're being presented with two two dimensional images. And each of these images is slightly offset. So effectively, stereoscopic movies or videos are shot with two different cameras because you need those two different perspectives. And then by wearing the glasses that you were in 3-D cinema or by wearing magic leap headsets or any other headset available in the market, those two images are combined. And what you're presented with is a 3-D illusion. But if you've ever been in the 3D cinema, you also know that this illusion actually stops working quite quickly, because as soon as you reach out to touch anything that you that is supposedly being in front of you, you realize that your hands and the image that you're being presented are totally not match, that the image is presented at a distance that is basically impossible for you to to understand, because effectively stereoscopic displays just fooling your brain. And it works for an hour and a half for some people, only for 20 minutes before they get sick. But this this illusion is powerful and it can work for some applications. But if you want to have interactivity of those objects, if you want to have or if you don't want to have a headache after 20 minutes, you actually need the technology that presents you with all those that's cues and visual cues that you're that your human visual system expects. 

Adrian Grobelny [00:20:00] When I was watching some videos on your company and the presentations that you guys have done a summits, you've done a lot. So it's really cool to watch those summits and how you present the company and break it all down in those short five minutes. But you had the catch phrase that the world isn't flat. So why should why is your screen flat? Why is holography so important? And what are the applications that you're working towards? Of course, there's the whole the visual experience, how you can apply to education to better understand texture of things or in sciences. There's so much with like the body anatomy learning about that. So beyond just those applications that I can think off the top of my head, what are the biggest applications? You see holography really disrupting and changing the way that we see digitally created visuals in our world? 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:20:54] Yeah, I think all the applications that you mentioned are definitely relevant. I think for some of them, we probably need to be very careful because I, I, I really feel like the entire industry of augmented the next reality for a long time has really tried to make up some applications and really impose them on people, especially in the industrial space, I think is really difficult to say. When are we going to be at the point where people will prefer to actually have a workshop or learn about something with their with their holographic smart glasses on versus actually having a physical experience? Obviously, the pandemic is really providing us a very nice use case for this. Unfortunately, there aren't that many or there aren't actually any holographic display devices that are available freely to that to the consumers. And the only ones that you can have are having those issues with brightness and, you know, the food in your brain, et cetera. So they're not very comfortable to use. So unfortunately, if we probably developed our technology two years earlier, you would be able to. Interact with your digital content in a much more comfortable way of today during during that covid pandemic, so I usually like to take a step back and really think about, OK, where in the display do we really care about things being at the correct place and being easy to interact with and and really where you expect them to be. And one of the applications that are actually quite easy for for people to think about and comprehend are in the automotive space. So, again, I'm not sure if you've ever had a chance to drive a car with a so-called head of display. So currently, it's actually one of the biggest innovations in the automotive sector. Recently have been those at those head of displays that allow you to move some information from your dashboards and from your phone. Importantly, because people looking at the GPS under a phone is actually killing a lot of people every year onto the dashboard. So you can see the road very clearly without too much distraction. So currently, most of those head up displays are built in a way that the information is literally on your windshield. So you're kind of looking on the roads. But as you know, focusing your eyes on the windshield is very different from focusing your eyes on the roads. You still have this couple of milliseconds lag between actually interpreting the information on the windshield and and looking at the roads. So if I can tell you that with with holography, I can show you all this information as if it was sitting on the roads. So I'm not only talking about the safety element, because you wouldn't have to be taking your focus back between the windshield and the roads. But also how many how many of us missed a turn at the roundabout because we weren't sure which one was the first one. Right, the next one left or whatever. Imagine that you actually had an arrow sitting on the road. So you were literally almost as if focusing if following some little guy with with an arrow standing at that junction where you have to leave the the highway, that would be useful. Right. And this is something that you can only achieve if those if this digital information is sitting at the correct depth or overtaking cars like underlying hazards on the roads. All of this is only possible if you can project that information outside of the car or beyond your windshield. So this is very much where holographic display is already making a lot of impact. This is something that we are working on actively as well, because this is something where I don't have to make up the advantages of the solution. It's it's plainly obvious to anyone and any car manufacturer that's knows this technology. And very often when people ask, this is also something that I believe or the application that will basically make people experience holography for the first time, it's not going to be your fancy phone of a little game and playing Minecraft on your on your on the on the top of your smartphone. It's not going to be, you know, you putting a frog using your augmented reality smart glasses instead of actually doing it in your biology class, they're going to come and they will also benefit from holography because again, as I said, you can't interact with this content unless you have holographic display as your display technology in augmented reality devices. But those more mundane reasons why holography really pushes augmented reality enter into the market are really going to be the most important, because we don't we don't want to persuade people to use augmented reality devices. We want it to be obvious to people why there is a benefit of doing this. And again, when you think about the smart glasses market as well, I think people really try to overthink what would be useful. When I think about this, what I want is maybe the extension of my smartphone functionality, maybe the extension of my Google Maps, and maybe I just want a little bit more a little bit easier way of of having a call with with someone when I don't have to hold my phone or like do any weird things and actually be able to see the person as well. So very much thinking about those applications that will make this easy transition of the new technology into the market is what we are thinking about on a daily basis. Because this is the only way really to introduce anything into the mass markets and we don't want to just build like industrial applications because the people who really want to use them. 

Shikher Bhandary [00:27:19] Being very keen on these technologies, they are. We are. I remember when Google Glass was a big thing and then the industry kind of just boomed with funding with like Holyland. And what does it matter? HTC had one. Everyone had like a prototype that they're working on. And then I guess the realization came that, OK, this technology is really hard. You mentioned depth perception. That's the big, big one. The computing power to actually render such images is ridiculous. So it gets hard, though, though, this big machine is on your face. How many people actually like that form factor? And so getting to that precise cost and scale has still not really happened yet. But the interesting thing that when I was reading on your stuff, on the news products, it's more like a software focus. You guys are creating the software platform that enables these manufacturers who want to use the jump on the platform and then you license the software to. 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:28:26] Know what's right. And I think that this is also very much representative of the move from, you know, I have a company that can do everything and is going to bring about a complete solution to the market. 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:28:39] If you think about this, it hasn't really happened in the history of of consumer tech. Like even the early stage apple stuff was not entirely manufactured by Apple. Microsoft has never aimed to actually build hardware ever. So I think that's when when people were heavily funding those those companies that promise that, you know, with with with two hundred million dollars or magically with two billion dollars, that they can build a complete solution that is bringing an entirely new technology to the consumer market. I think that this was this was delusional. If you think about this, Microsoft, from some of the reports that I read, actually put over 10 billion dollars into Microsoft Tolan's project, and it's still exactly where it has to be. So there's no startup in the world or, you know, like there is no single company, even if it was Apple, that is really going to get all of this entirely right. And this was very much our belief when we started working on this. 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:29:49] Our solution, as you said, is in software. So we started off with this innovation that was allowing us to to generate or render those holographic images and present them on the screen extremely quickly without a supercomputer so effectively using a standard computing power. And this was basically the first building block of our of our software framework or our SDK that we really built that allows people to take it and then basically develop with depending on what they want to build. Because, as I said, you can you can integrate holographic display into your your into your dashboards to bring the head up display into life. You can and many audience OEMs are already working on on wearables, which are either consumer great and really focus on the form factor or are looking a little bit more towards enterprise applications and still don't have that nice then smart glasses form factor, but allow you to have this complete mix reality experience where where you have the tracking of your environment, where you have the cameras built into the glasses, everything that you want, depending on where you want to land on the form factor, because this is a massive question so vividly specializes in the software. But of course we've been prototyping in-house as well. And we actually pivoted from being just a software company to calling ourselves software and IP Company because we and it's loads of designs, lots of kind of reference models and also implementations of our software that allow people to to basically not just take the software and figure it out everything for themselves, but actually take the software and the relevant pieces of IP depending on the form factor or that and the application that they can that they can license from us and use. So it's very much growing to become a little bit more all encompassing, but we still don't want hardware. 

Shikher Bhandary [00:32:02] That's as a hardware engineer. I'm saddened by your last sentence, but no, it makes sense because you see so many of these AVR companies going to fold and I love the one you know, the one that it was a helmet, which is what's the name? It was called Darwesh or something. That was a helmet. And you see a heads up display very similar to what you see where you can get directions and that sort of thing. Right. So that was so interesting. But ultimately, it was hard for them to get to the price point or even get to manufacturing a robust product. So hardware is literally the hardest thing you can do. So, yeah, it makes complete sense that you would go on the software out and have the IP to kind of partner up with these OEMs to just touch on that point for a second. How's the acceptance been from these OEMs and Odoms? Like you'll have car manufacturers and you would have to integrate your product with either the windshield manufacturers or would it be the car? At what stage do you actually come in and place this product? Again, it is we are talking about light. We're talking about reflexion. So what's what's that process look like? 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:33:17] I think the the most important element of this is that we effectively use all that of the shelf components that are already either used in some other systems or or that we or that we basically that have already been used in some augmented reality solutions, but we use them slightly differently. So I think the most important element of this is that we don't have to manufacture any display components from from scratch. And this has been the on technologies like, you know, there's been a lot going on in this industry and some people started building what they call light field displays. This is something that comes up in kind of the mixed reality quite a lot. But the biggest issue with some of those solutions is that you basically need to manufacture the entire panel that is generating your image from from scratch because that the light field display is is an entirely hardware based innovation with with holography. It's actually it's actually so easy because holographic display as a concept has been known since like nineteen sixty one of the Nobel Prizes in physics was actually awarded by for for the for the innovation of how to calculate those wavefront and then present a holographic image. It was for the analog holography. So now we are doing it on the computers. But effectively the concept of how holograms are created have been known for such a long time that we can use and off the shelf micro display to be able to generate those images. So so basically, having said that, majority of our partners are companies who either manufacture a previous generation of head of display or they already played around with the concept for for an augmented reality wearable. But they either want to upgrade, to go, for example, beyond just the windshield display, or they already realize that they cannot go to the market with any wearable using a display technology that is not holographic because it's not meeting the requirements of the consumer market and then to get involved with us because we are providing the necessary piece. So without our software, you are not able to generate those images quickly enough or or you are not able to generate them at all at the image quality that is also required. So the point at which we get involved in those projects is usually when the company decides we want to do we want to release a product that is using holographic display. And then they they usually end up knocking on our door because no one else can really provide the solutions that they're looking for. So I guess we are in a quite comfortable position of still really having an extremely differentiated offering in the market and really being able to provide something that is considered very valuable by companies that we work with 

Shikher Bhandary [00:36:42] kind of plug and play 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:36:44] very well. 

Jed Tabernero [00:36:44] Yeah, the goalpost has been moved many, many times. I feel when we see tech come out and people are expecting in the next fucking five years will have this holographic display that's going to blow our minds and whatnot. You're talking about all the legwork that needs to get done for this to become a. You to see product, right, what's our timeline? What are we looking at as far as when we're going to see this come to the HUD's where it's like vivid, cute powers, this type of technology? 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:37:16] By meeting with HUD, you actually made my life much easier than the first holographic cards are are due to come into the markets, into the cars that you can actually drive and by and by the beginning of twenty, twenty two. And this is very much a set date. This is something that we are already quite advanced in terms of our integration projects. So this is something that again and for most people, it's not going to be a massive it will be a step change. So I already spoke with some people who drive cars that have that have HODs in their car and they're very happy with them because they it's great. It's a great piece of technology that is really helpful. But then, you know, if I can imagine then buying another car into a half years and actually driving a car with a holographic cards, they are not going to think, oh, my God, a holographic display would they're going to think is, oh, this Hadfield's much more intuitive to use. And this is what I really wanted to happen in the consumer electronics space as well, because I think so far, if you were trying any of those augmented reality headsets, because I wouldn't even call them smart glasses yet there was usually a lot of set up to do. You really had to know the applications that you are playing with. They were usually not really obvious, like, why am I really doing this? Like, it didn't really feel like, OK, now I can see like this makes sense that the points to which I would like us to get to is that my mom puts those smart glasses on and she suddenly goes like, OK, I can move this here. I can like I can call you from there and like, oh, cool. I can, like, see my patients. And it will be really useful because I can see them in 3-D, not on the flat screen. And I can really like understand what they're doing, how they're feeling much better. So this is very much how I would like the consumer grades augmented reality to happen where people don't have to be like, OK, well am I supposed to do now? It feels like it's really overwhelming and uncomfortable. I wanted to get to the point where, you know, they don't have to be told. You are now using a holographic display and this is augmented reality. So we have to do this and that. I want it to be basically seamless. I'm using another device that is just making some of the things that I do with my computer or I do with my phone much easier. And and what I can say is that the holographic display is very much an integral part of this evolution happening, because this is this is just a piece of technology that will need to be integrated into those devices to to make that to make that step change. But you're right, there is still quite a few other things that we have to figure out. And we are involved in those projects about how like what's the perfect chip to use in any of those devices or what type of battery technology should we use? So it's also comfortable or can we get the sensors that we are using in some of those devices to the point where where we can also integrate them into the form factors if we want to use. What about the actual processing power? Like can we do it all in the cloud with 5G? These are all the questions that we are actually asking ourselves when when working with those OEM and and basically the big tech guys, because, as you said, there's been so much promise by by those startups, by by so many Kickstarter campaigns that people can do it in the garage and like a shoestring budget. And this is amazing. That's not really going to happen. Like, we we know that there is significant investment that still needs to go into any consumer level product that will be using holographic display to really meet all those requirements and to make my mom happy, but at least on the on the path to get there. 

Adrian Grobelny [00:41:33] So you guys just had a huge landmark deal with ARM, which is in ninety five percent of the mobile phone microprocessor market. It's in all our phones everywhere. How how has this partnership and this deal with them really helped you to kind of see where you will take your software to the next level and having more of a a. Footprint in all of our devices, how has. Were you nervous or tense when this deal was going on? Because they're they're everywhere. They're in every and every single one of our phones. And they have such a huge presence everywhere, basically. So how has that deal really elevated you guys. To really take advantage of this partnership and being able to really make it make your software more widespread and adopted in all of our devices? 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:42:33] Yeah, I think that it's great that you're bringing up at this point, Adrian, because I think that it's a really nice Segway from what I was saying about the need to really build the infrastructure and make sure that the supply chain is there for those technologies to happen. And this is very much why the ARM collaboration is so important for it's cute for anyone who is not really involved in kind of semiconductor industry on a daily basis. A very easy analogy in terms of why it's important is that before we worked with ARM, I could say that I could have I can bring holographic devices to the market that are using a computing power required by your laptop. So effectively, if you need if you want a holographic head up display in your car or if you want holographic headsets to work, you would have to plug it into something the size of your laptop with the arm collaboration. I can say you can do all that, but plugging it to anything the size of your smartphone and also, as you said, the actual size of the market and how many devices are using the arm architecture, I can probably say that there are probably hundreds of thousands more applications that can now be created with holographic display, just because I can say that you can use an arm chip to run a holographic display. So for us, of course, it is incredibly important. And this is still just just another milestone on the journey. Eventually, I want to say this is a little chip manufactured by one of the biggest chip makers in the world. And you can use this little chip to power any holographic display in the world. And it's running vivid software. And this is very much the next step for us right now, saying that we can run holographic display using mobile GPS and the chips created by ARM. It was it was huge for us and not only for us, I think for for all the customers that are planning to build holographic devices. This is also something that for for many of them is actually going to reduce the budget to make that happen, because before the computing requirements were still maybe a little bit too high. Currently with optimized algorithms, you can you can run it on the mobile GPU, which is very much the the main message for the world from this collaboration 

Adrian Grobelny [00:45:17] We're with our phones 24/7. Everywhere you go, you have your phone. Your phone is your wallet. It's your identity. It's it's everything you have. If you lose your phone, you lose your identity, basically. So just having that with you at all times and being able to run vivid. Q And whatever holographic applications and tech that we see in the next coming future, that's really exciting. I can't wait to see stuff beyond just Pokémon. Go. 

Shikher Bhandary [00:45:43] Big thanks to you for coming on. And if there are any last words that you want to give our listeners as to where they can find you, where they can find your articles, your papers, what we would is doing a blog, 

Aleksandra Pedraszewska [00:45:59] the platform where both myself and the most active is actually linked because again, we are predominantly a B2B company. We are selling our software to the audience and audience in the world. So this is actually where most of our customers are, our presence as well. So definitely check out Vivid Q on LinkedIn. All the news is always available there. And you can also search for me, Aleksandra Pedraszewska from Levitsky on LinkedIn. And I share a little bit more about things that I do both at the company and also on the side, like this podcast today. In terms of a rescue, we are also going to release a white paper, which is the first one ever that we've done and which had some contributions from from our partners, from Microsoft, HTC and Vidia. So it's actually going to be a very comprehensive, very comprehensive introduction to how holographic display is going to enter the consumer market. So this is. Something that interests anyone beyond what you heard on this podcast. Definitely check our website. I think we're going live with the white paper in mid-December. 

Shikher Bhandary [00:47:18] Hey, thanks so much for listening to our show this week. You could subscribe to us and if you're feeling generous, well, you could even leave us a review. Trust me, it goes a long, long way. You could also follow THC_POD on Twitter and LinkedIn. This is things have changed.